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Episode 61

What is your parenting style?
A look at 4 different
parenting approaches

January 2, 2022

[Kyle]: In this podcast today, we're going to hit on four specific parenting styles and by the end of it, we hope you've identified where you tend to land in your parenting style and then, how you can shift it to a healthy approach together with your spouse, you know, with the other parent. I think you're really going to enjoy the conversation. 

[Music]

[Kyle]: Hello, and welcome to episode 61 of The Art of Raising Humans. I’m Kyle.

[Sara]: And I’m Sara.

[Kyle]: And we want to say Happy New Year!

[Sara]: Happy New Year!

[Kyle]: Welcome to 2023. We're recording this-- It's obviously not New Year right now we're recording it, but this is it's going to drop right at the beginning of the new year. It's currently super cold in Oklahoma, where we are based.

[Sara]: Yeah, we've got some flurries.

[Kyle]: We're in our master closet recording and our closet is crazy right now. Full of boxes.

[Sara]: Because you gotta hide all your kids presents.

[Kyle]: That's right, yes.

[Sara]: And store the stuff. But you don't want them in the house.

[Kyle]: That's right. So, we're super tight, super cozy. It's good.

[Sara]: Yeah, staying warm.

[Kyle]: Yeah. I’ve recently had knee surgery, so I’m recovering from that too. So, a lot going on this Christmas and then, we thought what we wanted to do is be intentional about, you know, last year when we were doing the podcast, we did a whole one on goals and like, setting goals for the new year. We really are ramping up the speaking and so, we've got a lot of speaking engagements going on over the next several months. At some places we’re speaking are going to have, you know, hundreds of families coming to those. Some are going to be smaller venues, some are churches, some are schools, but we're excited about getting the opportunity to reach out to more couples. So, we thought we really wanted to do a podcast, that could help-- Be a great one for you to share with your friends in this new year. Friends who are thinking about switching their parenting style and just feeling like something needs to be changed, you know?

[Kyle]: So, for 2023 we wanted to really spend two episodes. So, this will be the first one, second one will come out next week, talking about these different types of parenting approaches. Because I think so many people get confused and couldn't really maybe articulate what the parenting style is.

[Sara]: Yeah, what do I call it? What am I looking for? What kind of parent am I trying to be?

[Kyle]: Yeah, and they don't even know that there's little-- There are ways to define this and ways to understand it and what we try to do when we're helping couples is, it's really great to visually show “this is where you tend to lean”, you know? And you know, we used to lean in one of these two and this is where we want to go. So, there's these parenting styles that people tend to fall back on and then, there is a parenting style that we think is just healthier and that we've more adopted and so, this episode in particular is going to be talking about the four parenting styles. We're gonna narrow down on the two most common and then, next episode will be more talking about the parenting style we're trying to help parents move towards.

[Kyle]: Okay? So, I would love, first of all, if you feel like this is helpful, 2023 would be so great. We're going to start more advertising the podcast, you know. Right now, we regularly have hundreds of listeners listening to each podcast, which is phenomenal, but we'd love to reach more families. So, it'd be great if you shared this podcast with your friends and family. Send this to other, you know, couples that you think would be helpful to as this new year is starting and we'd love for you to comment, you know? Getting five stars is always such a great thing of encouragement for us. Any of your comments, we just want to encourage you to do that, okay?

[Kyle]: So, if you're listening and you have a pad of paper and a pencil or pen, I’d love for you to draw this out. But if you're in a car or any other-- You're running, listening to this, don't worry about it--

[Sara]: Just imagine it in your head.

[Kyle]: Just imagine it, it's real simple, okay? So, what I want to do real quick, Sara, is I want to describe the four quadrants, okay? Now, this is something that Dr. Laura Markham does and many other kind of parenting experts do this, but I think a lot of parents just don't know about it, okay? So, in this this model, you want to have a line that goes from the top to the bottom of the page and a line that goes from the left to the right. So, you're just making a big plus sign on this piece of paper.

[Kyle]: On the top of that vertical line, you're going to put “high expectations” and at the bottom “low expectations”. So, that line is just a continuum measuring what you're expecting from your child, okay?

[Kyle]: Then the other line left to right, on the far left you're going to put “low support”, far right “high support”. So, that that line is measuring how supportive you are in helping your child achieve those expectations, right? So, support could be all types of things, it could be the time, the energy, the thought that you're putting into it, the conversations you're having with the kid, you know, all those kinds of stuff.

[Sara]: Or other people.

[Kyle]: Yeah, modeling--

[Sara]: Going to the school and [Unintelligible] the school. Or whatever the situation.

[Kyle]: Great. So, you're going back to even boundaries that we talked about back. You're creating a pot with your support, to help your kid be successful and achieve those expectations, you know? You're not setting your kid up just to fall on their face and fail, okay? You're making sure you equip them with the skills to do things like, brush their teeth, go to the bathroom, you know, sleep. So, all these things, you support them to achieve those expectations by doing them yourself.

[Kyle]: So, anyway. So, think about high support or low support, high expectations - low expectations, okay? So, in the bottom left quadrant, where somebody is giving low support and low expectations, that would be neglectful parenting, okay? What is neglectful parenting, Sara?

[Kyle]: That's kind of where the child is on their own. You kind of-- You sort of have the mentality that they'll figure it out, they'll learn, they'll navigate it and you're not providing that support, you know? There's a problem at school “well, kid, go figure it out”.

[Sara]: But you also, you don't expect much, you're not “what are your grades?” and “are you taking care of your room?” and there's very low expectation just sort of letting the child navigate where they want to go in life.

[Kyle]: Yeah. You know, I think most parents would probably don't fall in that category most of the time, right? But I think a lot of parents fall in that category when there's ongoing conflict, you know? Eventually what I see people when--

[Sara]: They give up.

[Kyle]: Just basically give up and say “forget it”, you know? “You think you know how to do it? Then go do it yourself”.

[Sara]: Well, and I would say maybe we're not there all the time, but we as parents like you just pointed out, there may be a section of your child's life where you've just backed out, yeah.

[Kyle]: Yeah, you've just been absent.

[Sara]: So, maybe it's because of conflict or maybe if you just examine, you're like “oh wow, that area I really-- I don't really have much expectation on them” or “I don't really support that area”. So, there may be different parts in life where you fall into that category. It doesn't mean universally you are always that parent.

[Kyle]: I find a lot of step parents fall in that category too, because they don't quite know their role, they don't know-- You know, what expectations they can have on the relationship or how to support the kid, because the kid doesn't have a relationship with them, you know? And so, they come in and they just think the best thing is just to be gone. So, when things get conflictual, they just leave or they just don't say anything, you know? And so, I find-- So, neglectful isn't where we find most parents we're helping, but a lot of parents do admit that “man, I’ve been there lately because me and my teenage have been fighting so much, I’ve just given up”, you know?

[Kyle]: Okay. So, top left, Sara, where there's high expectations, but low support, that would be commonly referred to as authoritarian parenting, okay? And so, authoritarian-- An example I really like, if you've ever seen the movie The Sound of Music, I remember watching that a few years ago and thinking the captain-- What's his name? Captain Von Trapp?

[Sara]: Von Trapp

[Kyle]: And that he's a perfect example of authoritarian parenting, you know? He loves his kids, but his connection is kind of weak, you know? I mean, he blows his whistle and they all come. He's definitely demanding, he has high expectations on how they dress, how they behave, right?

[Sara]: Yes, in all moments.

[Kyle]: Yes, but when the kids mess up, the kids don't go to their dad, they don't share that with him, because they don't think he will support them, you know? And so, a real common example-- We'll delve into this a little more in just a minute, is in that, it's really much the parents have all the power. So, in an authoritarian home, the parents know best, you do what the parents say, there's a lot of talk about obedience and compliance, you know? Doing it when I say to do it, quickly responding.

[Sara]: Don't need to have a reason, you just do it because I am--

[Kyle]: Yeah, a lot of because I said so. There's a lot of ground, you know, grounding is typical. Other forms of like, punishment to control the kid, to kind of get the kid up to those expectations, right?

[Sara]: Right

[Kyle]: So, if the kid is falling short, the parent then uses some form of power, to then push them back up to where they want them to be, you know? Like the kid isn't getting the grades, he loses his phone, you know? Something like that. So, that's authoritarian parenting, okay?

[Kyle]: Then on the bottom right you have high support, but low expectations, that would be permissive parenting. So, how would you describe permissive parenting, Sara?

[Sara]: Permissive parenting; we're going to do another movie example. If anyone has seen the movie Big Daddy with Adam Sandler. It's kind of not as old as has a The Sound of Music, but it is older.

[Kyle]: I know. It’s not as old as The Sound of Music-- Yeah, it was when Adam Sandler was doing tons of movies, you know? Like one a year.

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, kind of before he became that-- I don't know what people think of him now.

[Sara]: But he finds out he has a son, I think he's four or five, something like that and he is doing the best. I mean, the intention is “I want to let my child have choices” and “I want to let my child figure out his way” and “I’m here but I want to let him do that”. So, he lets his son for-- One good example is they go and order food and the kid wants 25 packets of ketchup and it's just drinking the ketchup. So, he's like “oh, I’m giving him choices in what he eats” and so, that movie if you're just thinking “oh, what's permissive look like?”, that's a great example. Where you're letting the child make all these choices, you have very few boundaries or structure for the child, eventually the child is stinking because he doesn't like to take baths and it's a problem at school and so, it's just-- It's a funny, it's a comedy, but it is a great example of where you're just letting the child make all these choices and you're not coming in to support them or guide them.

[Kyle]: I think another example we can delve more into is also helicopter parenting, you know?

[Kyle]: That's another way of doing that too. So, what you describe with Big Daddy is kind of a laissez-faire. Like, he's not being neglectful, he's there.

[Sara]: Right, and he's feeding him and [Unintelligible] in school.

[Kyle]: And he thinks he's supporting him, right? But his expectations on the kids behavior is so low, you know’ And so, but then like the helicopter parent, that's really talked about quite a bit in our culture and I saw a lot as a school counselor, is parents who were coming in rescuing their kid all the time and so, the support was like, doing their homework for them or yelling at that teacher to give the kid the--

[Sara]: Yeah, anytime there's a conflict, the child doesn't learn how to manage anything, because you go in and take care of it all for them, everything's taken care of for the child. You're cleaning up their room and making their bed and making sure they've got their project for school.

[Kyle]: Yeah, there's a lot of times a kid would be having a conflict with another kid at school and that parent would swoop in and demand that that other kid never spends any time with her kid and it was never any like, even effort to work towards resolving that. These kids were five, six or seven years old, you know? And like, there was no effort to like “let's resolve this conflict here, let's use it as an opportunity for growth”. It was like “no, that kid is bad. I don't want that kid next to my kid”. and so--

[Sara]: So, once again is that per the child can behave, however, you're right, you're either rescuing them from it or you're just not what not-- I’m just gonna look the other way and just let them make their choices and I’ll take care of everything around them.

[Kyle]: Well, okay. So, obviously neglectful. I think most people listening to this will go “yeah, I don't want to be that parent”. I mean, even the word sounds really gross. If I’m being neglectful of any relationship-- I don’t think know anyone's like “I’m neglectful”, right?

[Kyle]: But I think most of us, most people see themselves falling in either authoritarian or permissive, you know? And we're going to get to the top right in just a second, we'll vaguely just touch upon it and we'll come back to these two, but I just want to clarify the reason why those two are not ones we would want to be in, okay? Is because both of them are based in power, you know? Typically, the authoritarian is the parent has all the power, the permissive it seems as if the kid has all the power. The kid is calling the shots, you know? And you'll even hear that from parents. Parents are walking on eggshells because it's the kid who is demanding they do stuff, the kid is, you know, they're always living on edge of the kid blowing up and getting mad, you know?

[Kyle]: So, they don't confront things, they just let, you know, conflicts slide, you know? Because they're so afraid that the kid's gonna get mad at them and make a big deal out of it, right?

[Kyle]: Okay. So, we want to move away from that, because what I hope our listeners have learned and maybe, if you're new, welcome if you're new to this. But something Sara and I are very passionate about is, I think in this approach, what makes it so healthy and why we really bought into it, is what we're talking about here is good for all relationships. So, there are marriages that are authoritarian.

[Kyle]: There are couples who are permissive, you know? And there's friendships that can be authoritarian and controlling and there's friendships that can be permissive, you know? Because they're based on power. So, one is “I will demand my friend or spouse is going to act the way I want them to”, so I’m gonna get mad and yell at them or I’m going to threaten that I won't be their friend, I’m a threaten divorce or whatever it is to make that-- Or there's permissive like, I’ll just deny my own needs, let them get what they want, you know? Very much being like-- You know, just basically pushing down what you want at the expense of you, so the other person can benefit, right?

[Kyle]: And so, both of those are still power dynamics, you know? And so, yes, we're talking about parenting, but I believe when you use healthy techniques and a healthy approach with your kids, it actually benefits every relationship, you know? Your kids are just the one you get to practice it on the most, you know? And what we have found, we've done a podcast on this too, it strengthened our marriage, because then no longer were we being authoritarian to each other, permissive to each other. We instead were giving high expectations to each other, but giving high support too to achieve those expectations.

[Sara]: Yeah, it's just this is how to have a healthy relationship with anyone and I think we often think “oh, I should be thinking about the relationship I have with my spouse or my friends, I want those to be healthy” and we don't often realize those same skills, those same conflict resolution and communication and all those things, can apply in our relationship with our children too and the more-- If we're good at practicing with our children, it'll improve our abilities with other, with the adults in our lives. If we practice it with the adults, it'll help us with our children and all of it. The more we're practicing in all those relationships, the healthier we will be, the healthier those relationships will be.

[Kyle]: And that's why we call this podcast The Art of Raising Humans, because really like you're saying, is it really transfers to every relationship and thank goodness it does, because then we raise kids, who these healthy skills we're giving them transfers to every relationship, right?

[Sara]: And we're still raising ourselves.

[Kyle]: Exactly, yeah, so good.

[Sara]: They’re still-- You know, I’m still developing, I’m still growing and learning and changing and yeah.

[Kyle]: Yeah. So, the top right, we'll just give a name to it and we'll delve into this in the next one; I just want to whet your appetite. So, the top right high expectations, high support. Dr. Becky Bailey who does Conscious Discipline, she calls her home approach “Loving Guidance”. Dr. Laura Markham calls this approach “Peaceful Parenting”. You know, I think Dr. Gottman would call it “Emotion Coaching” and there's a lot of different terms for this approach. Even some who have listened-- Who are listening to this, lots you've probably heard of “Authoritative Parenting”, right?

[Kyle]: And that is what we're talking about too. I just hate how close it is to authoritarians.

[Sara]: It’s confusing.

[Kyle]: So, that's why I don't ever use it. So, yes, if you've seen those things on social media and you're like “well, isn't the other side that top right corner supposed to be authoritative?”. Yes, it's just too close to authoritarian, it's confusing and parents are like-- Parents will be saying they're being authoritarian, but they'll use the word authoritative or they'll flip it and I’m constantly having like “no, what you're really doing is--”

[Sara]: You have renamed that.

[Kyle]: That's right. Come up with a new name! So, I think Sara and I, just for the sake of clarity, will call it “Loving Guidance”, you know? I just like that, I think it sounds exactly like what we want to do, is give the kids loving guidance. Okay, so that's going to be the top right and that's going to be our next podcast. So, right now I want to delve into more specifically is this problem that we find in our culture and it may exist in all cultures, but I’m just speaking to the culture that we specifically see in America and the parents we help all over the country. But even all over the-- You know, in Europe and places like that when people call us and want help, is this dichotomous way of viewing parenting and what I mean by that, is that there's only two ways to do it. Either I’m authoritarian and we're really-- We're putting our foot down, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah. Tough love.

[Kyle]: We're being-- Yeah, tough love. We're really like, we're not putting up with anything, you know?

[Kyle]: Sometimes kids just need to know when I say it, they need to do it, right? They'll be this kind of--

[Sara]: Yeah. They’ll feel that I’m supposed to be in charge and--

[Kyle]: Yeah, and then there'll be this other side of like “yeah, but kids need to learn how to make their own choices. I mean, kids need to like find out who they are, you know? It's good for kids to, you know, be able to have some freedom and not be controlled all the time, you know?”

[Kyle]: And so, you need to let them do stuff. So, like that would look like-- I mean, when kids, when the brother and sister are having a fight, you gotta let them figure that out, you know?

[Kyle]: Or we're not gonna clamp down on the phone, I mean, you know, kids are gonna do what they're are going to do. So, give them the phone and you know, you let them figure it out on their own, you know? And eventually they'll learn, you know? Or just staying kind of-- You know, with the grades of like “the kid needs me to make sure we get those A's, so I’m gonna get those A's for him because I need him to succeed and he can't be expected to do all that, I need to help him do all that”, right?

[Sara]: Right

[Kyle]: So, in both of those, Sara, I think they're really based in really good intentions.

[Sara]: I agree. Yeah, definitely. I think it's everyone's attempt-- Obviously, some of it comes from our own childhood, how we were raised. We pulled some stuff from that, from our own personalities and we love and care for our children, so we patch all that together as best as we can, right? You do want your-- On the permissive side you are thinking “this is a person and they're growing up and they do need to figure out how to navigate and you know, make choices” or “I don't want them to fail and mess up and suffer the consequences for the rest of their life, so I’m going to swoop in”.

[Sara]: And on the auth- side. I almost said it. On the authoritarian side then you think “I’ve got to raise them right and they need to know boundaries and they need to know the rules and how to succeed”.

[Kyle]: “They need to be respectful”. Yes, yeah.

[Sara]: And you really-- Your approach to help them be successful in life is that kind of control tight very rule-based way to do it and the world has consequences, so we need to--

[Kyle]: Well, and the world isn't going to be kind to them. The world needs to get-- The world isn't gonna-- They need to--

[Sara]: I need to prepare them for that.

[Kyle]: Yes, yeah and so, I want to start with that that I think, every time a parent comes in and they're in one of these areas, you can see the truth, there is truth in those things. It's not that none of that's true. That is true, so we're gonna just told them that there is truth, but the problem is it slips into a power thing either where I have power over the kid or the kid has power of me, because both authoritarian and permissive have a fear component to it, you know? The authoritarian is-- The fear is “I have to control and make my kid do this thing, because they won't if I don't”. Permissive is “I don't believe my kid can actually do it, so I’m actually not going to ask them to do it, I’m gonna do it for them”. You know?

[Sara]: So, they're both based in fear and the inadequacy of me as a parent and the inadequacy of my kid to grow up and be this healthy human I want them to be, right? So, either way, I need to either make them do it or I need to do it for them, you know? And that's not good in marriage, that's not good in friendships. That fear connected to that power leads to toxic situations.

[Sara]: Yeah, both of them have pieces, kind of what your-- Both of them have pieces that are that valuable, but then they both just, they run-- They just have limitations.

[Kyle]: Yes, they’re not sustainable.

[Sara]: And you’re not going to achieve the goal you are ultimately wanting.

[Sara]: You sacrifice and both of those you're going to lose something and then, this other-- The other model which we're not really getting into right now, but the other model pulls the strings and--

[Kyle]: Well, because the other-- The goal is and I believe every listener would say it, you want to have a kid who is self-controlled.

[Kyle]: Self-disciplined. A kid that is respectful, that is kind, that is self-motivated, you know? All the-- But those don't happen in an authoritarian model and in a permissive model.

[Kyle]: Because one is “I’m controlling the kid” and then, at best the kids doing it for me, they're not doing it for themselves and the other one the kid, you know, basically the parent is always making excuses or making it like, doing it for them so they can be successful and those kids I find are really anxious, because they don't actually believe they can be this person that they've been asked to be all their life, because they've never been asked to be that, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah, everything's so wishy-washy in that world, they can't really tell or sometimes having some guidelines and boundaries help you know where you're going, how to get there and when you've gotten there.

[Kyle]: In these next few minutes I want to talk about how couples in general tend to balance each other out, you know? What I see in practice is you tend to have-- I mean, it can be where both couples tend to be an authoritarian or both perm-- But most cases, one tends to lean authoritarian and the other one leans permissive and I think that's for a reason. I think the reason why that couple probably got together is they wanted to be balanced out, you know? I think there's something in us that opposites attract, because we want to grow and become better, right? But what that does when kids come in the mix, it causes this really big conflict to happen, where one is judging the other. The permissive is judging the authoritarian as being too harsh and demanding and the authoritarianism is judging the permissive parent as being too weak and too focused on emotions.

[Sara]: And a lot of times-- And they feel like “I’ve got to be this way because you're that way”.

[Kyle]: Exactly, yeah, “I’ve got to balance you out”. Yeah.

[Sara]: “And so, I’m trying to help our kids here”.

[Kyle]: Yes, and then what happens is by the time they come see us last times, that dance has been going on for a long time to where they both just see each other as stuck in these things, right? Like “you're permissive, so I have to be authoritarian”. “Well, you're authoritarian, so I have to be permissive”, you know?

[Kyle]: And so, I wanted to point out-- You made some good comments before we started this, Sara, that what I see-- I want to sum up what I see in some families and I want the how you see it sometimes, is a lot of times what I would see is a very demanding dad. You know, a typical like old school model, almost like a military type Dad. Where you had a mom saying “wait till your dad gets home”, you know? And dad was the heavy, you know? So, Dad saw his job as the one who needed to keep the firm limits, you know? And mom's job was the one to be nurturing and kind and sweet. But man, when it all hits the fan, dad's going to be the one who takes care of that, right? And so, you see this also in that kind of model, the dad is more rational, the mom is more emotional. I know this is all very stereotypical, right? But very stereotypical of an age not too far gone, right? Where a lot of families were like that, you know? And that’s a real common thing you see in the movies today, you know? Where Dad is when he gets involved, he's going to be the heavy, he's going to be very demanding. He's not going to be supportive at all, he's going to be very controlling and that kind of stuff and the mom is seen as she's kind of coming alongside after dad's yelled and consoling the kid and this kind of stuff, and that causes a lot of problems because then, it looks like the husband thinks being rational and logical is better than being emotional, you know? And diminishes that.

[Kyle]: And even I’ve seen it get real toxic, where then the kids don't listen at all to the mom, because the authoritarian controlled dad's been doing makes it almost impossible for mom to have any kind of semblance of cooperation with the kids. So, she feels like she's gotta up it and become authoritarian too and it's just really sad, because then now mom's feeling she has to do what dad's doing to get any kind of-- So, that's one way you see this happening in families, where they tend to balance each other out or they tend to bounce back and forth, you know?

[Kyle]: So, the kid will go to one parent who's more the “yes parent” and not ask the parent who's the “no parent” and you see that too. But what's another way you see it?

[Sara]: Yeah, I think the other-- The flip side of that that you see a lot, is where the mom maybe-- Maybe she's around the kids more or she feels like she has to keep all the order and you know, lay the rules down and keep everything going and be hard on the kids and then, there's fun dad that comes in.

[Sara]: And he just comes home and he's just doing fun things with them or takes them out to do-- And so, you'll have that side too where Mom, she's like “all I have-- I’m always ‘do your homework!’ and ‘do the laundry!’ or ‘clean your room!’” and you just come in and say “hey kids! Let's go have something!”.
 

[Kyle]: Yeah, “let's go watch a movie! Let's get ice cream!”. You know, mom's trying to like, help them eat healthy and dad comes in and it's like “let's see--” and yeah, you do see that a lot too and that cause--

[Sara]: Yeah, where Mom feels all the pressure to do everything for the kids and then dad just gets to--

[Kyle]: Yeah. Well, and almost that's where like “mom's a wet blanket.”

[Kyle]: “Mom's nagging all the time”. You totally see that too. So, that's another cultural like, stereotype you see--

[Sara]: Yeah, and it doesn't mean-- Yeah, right. These are not universal, they're just-- They often come up one or the other. One person feels more of the heavy, the other person feels more like “okay, but the kids sometimes need to have fun too” or “you just gotta chill out a little bit”.

[Kyle]: Well, and one last example I want to give before we wrap up is, you know, this is real common too where a parent can be permissive, permissive, permissive and then they blow up and become authoritarian, right?

[Sara]: And even as couples you can do that, yeah.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and then authoritarian “now I feel bad because I just yelled and screamed at you”, so then I become permissive. So, Markham will say-- Dr. Markham says that's a way to raise a really obnoxious kid. So, lots of times when I meet a kid that seems kind of obnoxious, you almost-- It's almost 100% that's what's happening at home. Is the kid understands that the kid can do this, you know?

[Kyle]: I even knew it, you know? I tell clients this whole time. I knew my dad could get caught into that sometimes and so, if I wanted to get something at the store, I knew if my dad was mad at me, I would just push it and push it and push it until he got so mad, he yelled something I knew he was going to regret or he might even like, you know, punish me in some way I knew he was going to regret and then, I knew within a few hours he would ask if I wanted to go to the store and I’d say “yes” because I knew he was going to buy me something, and why would he do that? To manage his own shame, to manage his own feelings of feeling bad over losing control, right? And that's all too common in families too.

[Kyle]: So, what we're trying to do on this episode, is just where-- Sara and I just wanting to shine a light on these common things you see going on in families. Give it a name, you know? Like, I want you to kind of see yourself, where are you landing? Are you Landing in neglectful? Are you landing in authoritarian? Are you landing in permissive?

[Sara]: And it's very common to move around, it's not--

[Kyle]: It’s what I’m saying.

[Sara]: “I’m always going to be in this category”.

[Kyle]: It's dynamic.

[Sara]: So, just realize it's very normal and no matter how hard we try, we'll still have moments of “oh, I was kind of permissive there”; “Oh, I kind of came down it”. So, it is natural and you're never going to be that perfect parent. We're not seeking that, we just wanna-- It's helpful to be able to have labels for it or to be able to have a “oh, this is what it looks like” and “this is how I’m behaving in this moment” and “where do I want to go?”. It's just good information, we found it very helpful and even in our conversations about raising our kids, it's given language to steer us in the direction we want to go--

[Kyle]: Yes, it will keep us focused, yeah.

[Sara]: As a team and together.

[Kyle]: Well, and the language we could use, because I know when I get mad, I default to authoritarian, you know? When I’m getting stressed and everyone-- When you get stressed and overwhelmed, you kind of go down the permissive, you know? And so, once we had that language, we were like “oh, that makes sense, why we do what we do, because we tend to--”. It's partly it's our personality, partly it's our upbringing with our families, but we just tend to lean that way, right?

[Sara]: And feeling the need to balance the other person. If I see you and “wow, he's really coming down”, then I’ll feel the need to soften it a little. But then we can talk about it and yeah.

[Kyle]: Well, and what we want to help couples do instead of me looking at you judging you for being permissive, it's to encourage you to move up to Loving Guidance, and when you see me being too authoritarian instead of being mad at and judging me for that, but to encourage me to move towards Loving Guidance, right? And so, we're going to describe that in much more detail in the next episode, but just thought this would be a really great one to just give you-- Kind of start thinking that in this 2023 year, if you're wanting to shift some of these dynamics in your family, in your relationship with your spouse, you know, or even if you're divorced and want to do some co-parenting different, to really give some language towards it and have a podcast that you could listen to together.

[Kyle]: So, I hope this is really informative and helpful to you in better describing that. I would ask you definitely get ready for episode two, because that's where we're going to go really into depth over what Loving Guidance peaceful parenting really looks like and how to implement and how to move away from this dichotomous “it's either this parenting or that parenting”. Either I’m in control or they're in control. Let's move away from all of the power dynamics, let's use our power to be for the kids rather than against them and it's going to make for a better marriage, better friendships, all across the board. So, I really think it's a great starting point for you to begin with and just looking forward to the next conversation.

[Sara]: Thank you for listening.

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