Episode 84

[Kyle]: Hello, and welcome to episode 84 of The Art of Raising Humans. I’m Kyle.

[Sara]: And I’m Sara.

[Kyle]: And welcome to Fall. I hope you have a pumpkin spice late maybe, right? Or maybe you're all pumpked out. Maybe a pumpkin muffin? Maybe?

[Sara]: Maybe

[Kyle]: Would that be good?

[Sara]: Some really good fall flavor?

[Kyle]: Some kind of-- Some kind of pumpkin thing?

[Sara]: Apple

[Kyle]: We love the fall, right? We love a good apple crisp. So, I hope you're enjoying the fall air. What we're going to talk about today, we watched this interesting Ted Talk recently, Sara. This Ted Talk by Dr. Becky Kennedy, and she titled it-- Grabbed my attention right away. She titled it “The most important parenting strategy”. It's kind of catchy, right?

[Sara]: Yeah. Very well titled.

[Kyle]: So, it drew me in, Sara, and as I watched it, I thought “man, I really want to talk about this more with you” and with our listeners, because I think there's a lot of really important things you need to know as a parent, right? Like, connection is really important.

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]: Attachment, resolving conflict, all those kinds of things.

[Sara]: All kinds, yes.

[Kyle]: But the one that she really emphasized was the need for repair.

[Sara]: It's an excellent Ted Talk, and we agree, we talk about repair quite a bit. Anytime there's-- We'll get into this later, but with rupture, that's something that you and I have spent a lot of time getting better at understanding, seeing the impact of repair and relationship.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and the reason why I thought it was so important to talk about it, Sara, is I see so many parents who want things to change, and I know we've talked about this in other podcasts, but I thought this was a unique way to approach it. Is so many of them want the behavior to change. It's a behavior that keeps happening over and over and over and over again and yet, there's no repair happening, you know? Or the repair is a quick apology or something like that, right? I really want to emphasize today, as we talk about it, how important the repair is to actually bringing about long-lasting change in the relationship.

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: Because something I know that's going to happen in every relationship I have, in our marriage, in our parenting and friendships, is ruptures are going to happen, right? That's inevitable.

[Sara]: Yes.

[Kyle]: And by ruptures, what do we mean by that? What does ruptures mean?

[Sara]: Well, that's when you have a conflict, and for my words for it, are just the break in the relationship where you feel that space between you and, you know one or both of you are not okay right now, and that conflict hurt your relationship and I think we can’t know it in our head, but we feel it. We feel that distance grow between us, between you and your child, and that's the rupture.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and so, that can happen how? What can cause ruptures? I mean, the way I think of ruptures is me yelling, getting really angry, intimidating, if I'm mad at all, right? What's some other ways ruptures can happen?

[Sara]: Yeah, I think when one-person kind of takes power over the other person, I think that creates that rupture. I think a withdrawal of love creates that rupture. You know, if you're giving them that stone wall, that cold withdrawal, I think that creates rupture.

[Kyle]: Yeah. So, anytime what you're saying, Sara, you feel-- I mean, the rupture is a good word, and I know-- I think Dr. Siegel uses that a lot. There's a rupture. There's like this toxicity that gets put in the relationship. You can feel this distance, right. Either you're pushing the person away and once again, we're going to use this like Dr. Becky Kennedy talks about, but we're going to talk about today in the parent/child relationship. But this is true. If you're listening to your marriage, to any kind of relationship you have, is you're either pushing them away or you're kind of withdrawing from them, right?

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]: Would you say that's the case?

[Sara]: Yeah. Maybe they've hurt you, so you're pulling back.

[Kyle]: To be safe. Yeah.

[Sara]: Yes, or you know, just like--

[Kyle]: Or you're attacking, right?

[Sara]: Yes, yeah.

[Kyle]: Okay. So, in both cases--

[Sara]: Real quick, I think probably for the listener, you can think real quick of times where rupture, maybe you've had it in a friendship and your friend said something and you lost that relationship because of it, or maybe you said something and now that relationship is-- That's a rupture where it's just never-- That's the worst case. You've lost the relationship and it now doesn't exist anymore. There is no relationship.

[Kyle]: Yeah. So, I want you to think about a moment where that's happened as a listener, when that's happened with your kid or any other relationships in your life, where this distance has grown, it has become toxic, or maybe they don't even know that this rupture happened, you know ? You might have just withdrawn and been less open. I can think of, as I'm saying, a lot of different times, but I know in particular for us, the examples I'm thinking of, Sara, are times-- Man, there's times where they were really young, where I get really mad about food and them not eating the food. That would be frustrating.

[Sara]: Yeah

[Kyle]: Or not cleaning the room or not doing a task fast enough. I know, man, with me and Brennan, lots of times I'd get really upset because he would get really slow and not do things as fast and I was in a rush, because I had a to do list or a checklist. So, I would raise my voice and get really mad and then you could feel this. I almost was pushing them away, and you could feel there's a distance the rest of the day. Like, the relationship is not the same, right?

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, and I think for adults, even in marriage, eventually that leads to divorce, but it's different and I want to highlight this with children, because they can't just do that. Your four-year-old, your eight-year-old, even your teenager. I mean, teenagers’ sort of kind of can, but they can't just go live in a different house now. They're kind of stuck in this relationship with you. So, rupture sort of does different things and because they're children and we'll probably get to this later, the way that they think about it and we think about it is different.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and I love that you point that out because, Sara, I'm thinking almost all the kids, especially the teenagers, this is so important because you see over time, rupture after rupture after rupture after rupture--

[Sara]: And the toll

[Kyle]: And none of them have been repaired, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah, the toll it takes.

[Kyle]: And so, the kid eventually just, the distance gets further and further and further. Like we've talked about in previous podcasts, they kind of close the door more and more and more and so, then every time they're with you as the parent, they're more and more closed off, less and less open and receptive to you. Because the way the brain works is when these ruptures happen, there's a story that starts to develop and that one moment backs up all these other stories, and pretty soon that becomes a narrative, you know? The narrative is “this is how you see me, because there's never been a repair to help change that story”, right?

[Sara]: Yes

[Kyle]: The story is “you're not good enough”. The story is “I don't like you when you're like that or until you get yourself cleaned up”.

[Sara]: It’s conditional love.

[Kyle]: Yeah, yeah.

[Sara]: You know, it's like “oh, now I'm lovable. Oh, now I'm not lovable”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and I want to point out, and I think Dr. Kennedy did a great job of this on the Ted Talk, that a repair is different than an apology, right?

[Sara]: Yes. I loved that highlight.

[Kyle]: How's it different? How's it different than an apology?

[Sara]: Well, we all know an apology, right? “Oh, I'm sorry I raised my voice at you” and then you just-- Maybe they forgive. But you know, you've often felt that apology and you're like “I don't actually feel any better right now. Thank you. But things are not okay”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and sometimes in those apologies, Sara, I mean-- I know maybe you haven't done this, but I know I've and I bet these listeners have, where “I'm sorry that this and this happened, but if you hadn't done that, then I never would have done that”.

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, where it's still sort of putting the responsibility “I only did it because of you”.

[Kyle]: Yeah. “If you had just done the dishes when I asked, I mean… But I am sorry how I reacted to that”, right? And so, I think a lot of us are used to that with parents giving these conditional type things, or even--

[Sara]: If we don't directly say it, it's threaded in there in our tone or look or because we haven't actually done the repair, the apology leaves that sitting there.

[Kyle]: Yes. So, a repair is different. It's not just about an apology. Even though an apology may be part of the repair, it is about changing behavior. So, we want to get into that a little bit more. But I loved what she had to say about how repair is this integral part of the parenting strategy that you're doing. You've got to get good at repair, because without that repair there can't be growth and change. But lots of us beat ourselves up when there's a rupture, right? And that's why we don't do the repair, because of the shame and the self-anger we have towards ourselves as parents. We just beat ourselves up that we just acted like such a jerk to our kids, you know? But I loved how she said “you can't have the repair without the rupture”. So, I think that really hit me, Sara, because I think early on in my parenting when I was learning all this knowledge about how to be a better parent, it was like “oh, I can't have ruptures”, you know? And the goal was not to have ruptures, instead of the goal was to know what to do when you have the rupture, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't want the rupture and maybe as you build your skills and maybe you'll have fewer, but ruptures are part of relationship and they're going to be in every relationship. So, to just think that you're going to avoid that, it's not going to happen. So, just accept “okay, sometimes I'm going to mess up, sometimes there's going to be a rupture. Now? What can I do? Best case scenario.”

[Kyle]: And I'll give a quick example. I want the listener to be thinking of an example when you've caused a rupture. An example that comes to mind real quick is our oldest daughter can be forgetful times and she can leave things, specifically her water bottle. So, she can leave her expensive water bottle, if you know what I mean. I know you know what I'm talking about. She can leave that in places and then we spent a lot of time and this goes back way into childhood, Sara. If you remember, she used to have these cloths that she liked and she had some of them when she was a little kid and they're almost like a comfort thing.

[Sara]: Like a blanket. Yeah.

[Kyle]: A blanket and she would leave those. She originally had like nine of them and she kept losing them and there was many nights when she was three or four years old, where I was taking a trip back to where we had been and she had dropped them somewhere. So, there was this narrative in my mind, this anger building up of like “why you keep losing stuff!? I'm so sick of it!”.

[Sara]: “If they're so important to you…”

[Kyle]: Yes, that’s right. “You act like you're dying if you forget them”. So, the water bottle is just this next thing that was constantly being forgotten.

[Sara]: I didn't know this was going back so far for you.

[Kyle]: It's so deep for me and so, then I would blow up at her and get really mad and definitely would cause a rupture because I was so tired of it. I feel like “when is this going to change?”. So, for me, that's an example of where I would find out about it and I would quickly turn around and attack and be like “what is your problem? How do you keep forgetting this?” and get really mad, and that's an example of a rupture between her and I, right?

[Sara]: Okay.

[Kyle]: I don't know if you have an example at all of a rupture.

[Sara]: I got caught up in your rupture. Probably maybe when I've asked for something to be done and I feel like I've really set the stage and I've supported and this is given the time to get it done, whatever task it might be, and then they go to do it, and I'm thinking “okay, yeah, it's been whatever amount of time, they should be done now”. I go and check and nothing's been done.

[Kyle]: Yes. No, you do get upset about that. I think everybody does. Every parent gets upset.

[Sara]: Yes.

[Kyle]: They're like “does my voice matter? Do you care about what I'd say?”

[Sara]: Yeah, and I think there's a piece of me that feels like “oh, I need to make it uncomfortable so they're motivated”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, yeah.

[Sara]: And that probably goes back to my childhood. Well, we won't get into all that, but you know, about “where did this story start?”. But I think there was a piece of me that thinks “oh, they have to be uncomfortable to be motivated to do this thing” and so, I think as adults, we think there must be-- We've got to make them-- You know, there has to be some discomfort.

[Kyle]: So, she talks about how in that moment, Sara and we know this to be true, but I'm hoping that wording it this way will help our listeners be able to just envision this differently. In that moment, the kid is in a state of distress and, I mean, you can imagine that if you remember as a little kid, that was scary when your parents were upset at you because you had no idea what was going to happen, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: And so, the kid needs to get back to feeling safe and secure because it doesn't feel good to be in this state of distress, you know?

[Sara]: Right.

[Kyle]: And so, if we don't help the kid do that repair, then the kid's going to have to rely on their own coping skills, you know? And just like you do. For instance, if there's a big fight in the marriage or friendship, you've got to rely on these coping. Typically, our coping skills sound something like this “there's something wrong with me. I make bad things happen. I'm unlovable”.

[Sara]: And that's especially true for children. Especially true for children.

[Kyle]: “I'm such a bad kid”. Yeah.

[Sara]: When they're looking at “is it you or me?”, kids are going to default to “it’s me”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, yeah, and Sara, she shared this quote, I had to look it up because I didn't know this person, but a quote by Ronald Fairbairn.

[Sara]: Yeah, I don't know that name either.

[Kyle]: I looked it up. He's a psychologist. So, Ronald Fairbairn had this really good quote. So, I want to say it and let you in that moment, I want you to be thinking about this quote in regards to your kid doing this self-blame. The quote is “it's better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the devil” and that just really I thought was well said, that you can picture the kid is saying “it's better for me to be the bad person. If I blame myself, then the parent is still good and my world can be ruled by God in a good way. Otherwise, if I start to point the finger at you and say what you did was not good, then now my world is ruled by the devil”, right? And this fear of like “that's not going to feel safer. It's actually going to feel safer to blame myself to tell me that I'm responsible for what you just did”.

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, and a flood of stories goes through my mind having worked with kids and even kids who have come out of really hard situations and events that--

[Kyle]: Really abusive situations, right? Where they blame themselves almost like they deserve to be hit and they deserve to be yelled at.

[Sara]: I’ve seen this happen over and over and over and over again, where they take that on themselves. Even if to us parents it doesn't look like it, because the parents may feel like “well, all they have to do is this and this. They're doing it themselves. They don't care about me”, whatever you're telling yourself, that's not what's happening inside of them, you know? “They are doing this. I'm messed up”.

[Kyle]: Yeah. It only surprises me, Sara, because especially when it's so obvious it's us. Like, I'm thinking--

[Sara]: They're saying “I'm unlovable, I'm unlikable. There's something wrong with me. It can never get better. I’m broken”.

[Kyle]: Well, I'm sure the listeners-- I'm sure the listeners have experienced this, Sara, where you've blown up at the kid and the kid later on, when you do try to come back and reconnect with them, they'll say something like “I just felt like you didn't love”, you know?

[Sara]: Yeah

[Kyle]: And that’s the “the obvious reason why you didn't love me is because I’m unlovable”, you know? And so, man, I'm always so surprised that they take it so personal, because in my mind, I'm thinking “it's obvious I'm the one in a bad mood. It's obvious I'm the one who's stressed right now. It's not your fault. You don't deserve to be talked to this way”. But they believe they do, they think “I do deserve to be spoken to this way. I do deserve to be yelled this way”.

[Sara]: Yeah, “I brought this on”.

[Kyle]: Yeah. So, she said this, that she followed up that quote with this idea, that it's adaptive for a child to internalize badness and fault, because then they can believe their parents and the rest of the world is good. So, it's actually an adaptive skill to then internalize themselves as the badness, as the fault, so they can live in the rest of the world that is good, and this is adaptive for kids. But you know that has become so detrimental for us as adults. Like, you even talked about your response to them not doing what you're saying, right? My response to them losing, I guarantee other adults did that to me when I was a kid. I just-- Yeah

[Sara]: Yeah, yeah. School, teachers, church, other leaders in your life, coaches. Whatever.

[Kyle]: Well, and I'll just say something a little secret to you and to our listeners. I just left my wallet at a store the other day. I'm sure-- I'm old enough now where I don't yell at myself about that, but yeah, that's exactly what my daughter did. But I left my wallet with all my credit cards and money and license, and I'd been sitting on a couch and I left it there, and I don't think beating myself up about it is going to be helpful, you know?

[Sara]: Right

[Kyle]: But if our daughter had left her wallet with all that money, it would be hard not to want to get mad about it, right? And to think “oh, I need to really get on to you about that”, right?

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: So, I just thought that was a really powerful way of saying this. That that's why we do it as adults, because it's an adaptive skill we wired our brain to default to when we mess up, right?

[Sara]: And it doesn't serve us. A lot of adults think-- You know, you carry that into adult life and I messed up even-- You know, it's hard to build friendships “oh, it must be me”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, “I'm weird” or I'm somehow--"There’s something wrong with me”

[Sara]: And in the workplace. We carry it with us, where we have those messages still going through our heads, and we know as adults “they don't help me”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and so, I hope-- Man, I want to kind of really encapsulate that, Sara, that the reason why these stories, the stories like “I make bad things happen, I'm unlovable, I'm not good enough. There's something wrong with me”. These stories happen when we are left alone in these moments without any repair.

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: That's what makes those stories seem to be true.

[Sara]: And that's where just saying “I'm sorry”, though kind and meant to help, doesn't change that narrative. You know, that still stays in there without the repair and that's just the shortcomings of an apology, even well intentioned.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and what I've noticed too, Sara, over time, because these stories become true, man, by the time kids come to see me sometimes, they're 8, 9, 10, 11, the parents will say they don't want to follow up after an event, because the kid I think is scared that this story is just going to be backed up by that conversation.

[Sara]: Yeah, validated. Yeah.

[Kyle]: Yeah, that they really--

[Sara]: And they have so much shame over how broken they are. Why would they want to talk about that? “I don't want to talk about it because they’re just trying--” You know, they feel so bad about themselves.

[Kyle]: Yeah. Well, actually, just--

[Sara]: Who wants to have that conversation?

[Kyle]: They want to forget about it. They want it to go away, and they're like “why are you bringing this up again. Just drop it, you know?”

[Sara]: Yeah. “I already realized I'm really bad. Can we just move on?”

[Kyle]: And so, that's where if your kids are younger, I want you to realize that that becomes hard to undo later on. Not to say it ever is too late, but it’s just--

[Sara]: Yeah, it’s not. It’s not ever too late.

[Kyle]: Yes, and we'll get to that, but I want to say doing it when they're younger and them getting into the habit of the repair being a part of this stuff, they can go “oh, cool, we'll follow up” and I like how Dr. Kennedy said “when you repair, you add safety, you add connection, you add coherence, you add love and goodness”. These things all come as a result of the repair and actually repair-- I mean, get this, Sara, the repair can change the past.

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: Repair can change the past.

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: How does it do that? How does repair change the past?

[Sara]: Well, we stack up these stories in our head. So, if I left my little blanket when I'm three and then left my water bottle at school at five and then left--

[Kyle]: Yeah

[Sara]: Right? And “I'm so broke, I'm so messed up, what's wrong with me?”, other stories would pile on that too; I'm just going to use that one as an example. But over time, all those stories build up in our minds. Our minds are gigantic file cabinets and things get filed away and so, without that repair, that file stays there. But with the repair, the brain is so cool because it pulls in all that stuff at once. So, what can harm us is all that stuff is pulled in when something bad happens, it piles in with all the rest. But the same thing happens with the repair, where it goes in and starts to heal all those other ones as well. It can clear out the whole file drawer and not just that one story.

[Kyle]: And I don't mean to go too deep, but I'm thinking, as you're saying, I think it repairs the story in me too, you know? That that story about Abby, I've had a story for a long time that I'm sure connects to a story within me, right? About forgetting things and making sure you remember stuff and that if I go repair with her, it actually helps me understand and heal that within her, but also heal that within me.

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: Just really cool.

[Sara]: Because when I forget, it's also okay.

[Kyle]: Yeah, and so, I think that's a really powerful concept that I love that idea of repair, because then my own kid through their imperfections, are helping me be okay at being imperfect.

[Sara]: It's actually creating that cohesion in you.

[Kyle]: Yeah, yeah. That's so good. So, she talks about here's some simple steps if you're wanting to do this, which I think be a great step to start doing today, over this fall and start really implementing this into the holidays, is you must first repair with yourself. So, this is one I had to get good at, Sara, because I was really good at beating myself up quite a bit. That I can't offer repair if I'm not doing it with myself and she kind of words it this way of just saying “I may not be proud of my behavior, but my behavior doesn't define me”, right?

[Sara]: Yeah

[Kyle]: That that's the important distinction, is “I'm not proud of what I did”. It's like you're patting yourself, you know, whatever in the moment. “You do what you do”, right? I mean, it's “no, I'm not happy with how I did it. I'm not pleased with how I acted”. But you've got to separate what you did from who you are.

[Sara]: I loved how she said sometimes people think “oh, you're just letting yourself off the hook”.

[Kyle]: Yes. Yeah.

[Sara]: And she said “no, you're actually putting yourself on the hook because you're actually saying ‘this is what I did’, but separating that from ‘this is not me’”. Because that's where people feel like “well, you're just letting yourself off the hook. You've got 50 lashes or something”. Yeah.

[Kyle]: Well, Becky Bailey does a good job talking about that with positive intents. That actually, it allows you when you do this, it allows you to take responsibility for what you've done, right?

[Sara]: Yeah

[Kyle]: And so, then the point of doing that, Sara, is to separate your identity from the behavior which going back, I'm sure every listener can-- When you have that story, like, I started to have a story about Abby that Abby can't remember things. Abby is forgetful and forgets stuff, and this really narrative was going in there. That's unfair to her because she remembers a lot of things; She doesn't lose everything. The amount of stuff she doesn't lose far away is the stuff she does.

[Sara]: And you’re putting a label on this person as something instead of just someone who does something, they are that very thing.

[Kyle]: Yeah. So, it's really important to separate identity from behavior. Then once you've done that with yourself, then you can repair with your child and she gives a few steps. She even says, this is kind of like you can take these steps or you can move around. But naming what happened. I think these steps are what we do, you know? We name what-- “Here's what happened” and then, I take responsibility for my part in that, right? And then we talk about what we'll do different next time, you know? With clients in the practice here, I talk about watching the game film. This is kind of like “let's go back, let's watch the game film”. I use that kind of idea. It's like good quarterbacks. They go watch the film. Even if they've thrown five interceptions or five touchdowns, they watch the game film and they go back and say “what would I like to do differently? How would I like to play better next time?”, right?

[Sara]: Yeah.

[Kyle]: And then maybe even you act it out, you know? I'd love it with the example of Abby forgetting the water bottle. Let's go back and do that again. Let's do a retake and let's see how we could do that differently, you know? So, then now the kid's seeing a different story, a different way this ending could have and man, if parents do that piece, you see growth and change happening pretty quickly, because now the kid is receptive, the story isn't guiding the narrative. Instead, you're able to repair and heal the story in you and in them, and a new outcome starts to be created.

[Sara]: Yeah, and start with-- Don't start with what they could do different, start with what you could do different.

[Kyle]: Yeah, yeah.

[Sara]: First, make sure that they know you're owning your side. So, if you yell at them, I don't care what they did, you yelling at them was you, was on you and you need to own that first, because you could have really had a lot of different reactions. You could have cried, you could have clapped for them, or you could have just been like “oh, you did leave that? Okay, what can we do about that?”. You really could have. So, you need to make sure you're owning that part first, because it's going to be hard for them to move into that learning or skill building if that's hanging out there. Any of that message of “I'm broken, I'm bad, you're mad at me, you hate me, I'm unlovable”, if that's still in there, they're not going to be really in a learning space. So, make sure you've owned that, that that's fully repaired.

[Kyle]: And you can go back to our earlier episodes, episode one, two, three, where we talk about the brain, is the repair helps get the kid and you to the prefrontal cortex and that's where skills can be taught and learned. So, that's the power of repair. If we don't do repair, if the rupture stays there, the toxicity is there, no learning is happening. It's actually going to make it more likely that behavior continues to persist in you and in them. I like that saying “what you resist will persist”, right?

[Sara]: Yeah

[Kyle]: And the more you resist that instead of just accepting it, going back, repairing it, and then choosing to figure out a different way of doing it, that's the only way the skill happens, you know?

[Sara]: And it's awesome to see if you're doing that, just like anything, you show them how to ride a bike, you show them how to do all these other things. If they see you doing that, they're going to feel safer and they're going to feel more able to then also eventually own their part, you know? If this is new for your family, it may take them a while to feel like “now I can take responsibility too”, but if they see you consistently taking responsibility, then they'll also feel that models for them and they go “oh, yeah. Well, and this is my part of it”.

[Kyle]: Yeah.

[Sara]: And you'll see that reciprocated.

[Kyle]: And that's how things change, that's how the skill happens and I love that she ended, Sara, with that really powerful moment, which says “it's never too late to do the repair” and so, it doesn't matter if your kid is a teenager. It doesn't matter if your kid is even an adult and she gave that really interesting example. So, I'd love to do this with our listeners, just to think back, you know, if you got a call today, if you got a call from your parents, and your parents called to say to you “hey, do you remember those moments in your childhood when I did this, this, or this? I want to say I'm sorry, and I want to take responsibility for the part I played in that” and I thought that was really powerful, where she was saying that would hit all of us. That would feel good to everybody, because there are moments that are unresolved. There's ruptures that have not been healed in everybody's childhood and it'd be really awesome to have your parents, even if you're in your twenty s, thirty s, forty s, fifty s, sixty s, whatever.

[Sara]: Yeah. If they left behind a letter if they're no longer here. She said “if they're no longer here, you find a letter where they said ‘hey, I'm sorry’”.

[Kyle]: And how good would that feel? You know, that would feel so good to go “oh, man”. It would really heal something in you and that's why it's so important to do this and get in the practice of it now, to where it's just a natural part of the rupture repair relationship. We're constantly doing that. We know the kids trust if there is a rupture, there will be a repair. You want to get into that habit.

[Kyle]: So, I hope this was really helpful to you today, and definitely go check out that Ted Talk if you want. Dr. Becky Kennedy, and it's titled “The Most Important Parenting Strategy”. So, that will just hopefully, visually give you another way of hearing it or seeing it and so, Sara and I really wanted to bring that to you. I hope it helps you and your relationship with your kid today. Please, make sure you go on and like the podcast, share it. Give us some good comments or other ideas you might have and if you have any speaking engagements you'd like us to be a part of soon, we're still scheduling those. We recently finished up one at a church we did, and we've got some more coming up at other places. So, would love to get your feedback on that and we hope you are enjoying the fall weather.

[Sara]: Thanks for listening. We appreciate you.

[Kyle]: In today's episode we are going to share with you the most important parenting strategy. I think you're going to learn a lot on this one, so join us today.